On Thursday, April 13, 2023, Donald Trump gave a seven-hour deposition to prosecutors in the New York Attorney General’s office as a part of the state’s civil suit against him and his family for fraudulent asset inflation and other financial violations. NY AG Letitia James released the transcript yesterday. Here are a few highlights. This deposition tells us a lot about Trump’s mind: he lies; he makes up claims then a few minutes later he disputes his own claim; he conveniently cannot remember; it was all someone else’s fault; I had nothing to do with it.
Q. Mr. Trump, are you currently the person with ultimate decision-making authority for the Trump Organization?
A. No.
Q. Who would that be?
A. My son Eric is much more involved with it than I am.
Poor Eric is so desperate for paternal love — yet right after the kickoff, Dad threw him under the bus. In addition, Trump then explained he had put the business in a revocable trust and was not aware of what was going on.
“It, essentially, meant that I was not involved or at a very minimal — I can’t even think of anything where I was involved.”
Trump explained he set up the trust because he did not want to have a “conflict” — even though he did not have to. He said he could have been just like George Washington.
“I tell the story that George Washington actually when he was President had two desks. One for his business — he was actually a very wealthy man — one for his business and one for running the country. I could have had that.”
I doubt Washington would have appreciated being called a kindred spirit by a serially bankrupt rapist sporting four criminal indictments. Then he added a spot of whataboutism.
“If you look at Biden, he certainly does business and politics at the same time.”
What a toddler. Even if Biden were as corrupt as Trump, two wrongs do not make a right. Trump then mentioned he had a “highly respected man” who was the “overseer of the trust.” The prosecutor asked,
“Who was that?”
To which Trump replied. “I don’t know his name. He was an attorney from Washington D.C. I didn’t know him. I believe I met him once very quickly and — ”
Remember when Trump said he has “one of the great memories of all time?” His capacity for lying is such that he thinks people will believe his claim he put his family business in the hands of a man whose name he cannot remember.
Trump then spends time outlining why he was such a great President — and again explains that he has had nothing to do with the company since 2015. He also claims his properties are like great works of art and worth a fortune — including Mar-a-Lago.
“When I bought Mar-a-Lago, I paid $8 million for it and today I think we’re going to be bringing in people that will tell you it’s worth a billion 250, billion and a half, maybe more than that.”
It gets worse. Trump added, “I think Doral could be worth 2 and a half billion by itself.”
$1.25 to $1.5 billion and $2.5 billion? The most generous valuation of Mar-a-Lago was $350 million by Forbes. This number is probably way off, as the most expensive Florida home sale ever was $173 million — paid for an estate bought by Larry Ellison, with a residence the same size as MAL on a lot with the same acreage.
Trump then claims he has cash to burn.
“We have a lot of cash. I believe we have substantially in excess of 400 million in cash, which is a lot for a developer.”
No doubt James will ask him to prove that at trial. Expect crickets. Trump then offers that “the No. 1 branding person at the time” valued the Trump brand at $2.9 or $3 billion. Adding,
“That was back in 2000 and something. And now the brand is worth much more.” And now “I think it’s the hottest brand in the world.”
This claim makes you wonder why so many Trump-branded properties are chiseling his name off the door.
Trump was not done. After some distraction about his NFTs, he circled back to his brand valuation. He told prosecutors that in his asset statements, he had not included the value of the brand.
“But if I wanted to show you a good statement, I would have added maybe $10 billion or something for the brand.”
No wonder the guy is rich. He has tripled his money in five minutes while sitting in a lawyer’s office.
Next, the prosecutors are interested in an email chain involving four employees of the Trump Organization — who become four more people Trump hardly knows.
Q. First, can I ask you who is Patrick Birney?
A. A gentleman who works for the Trump Organization, I believe.
Q. Do you know him personally?
A. Not very well.
Q. Donna Kidder?
A. Likewise, I don’t know her.
Q. You don’t know her personally?
A. I know who they are, but I don’t really
Q. You don’t work with her closely?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Same question for Mark Hawthorn. Do you know who he is?
A. I think the same answer, you know.
Q. And I’ll ask one more; Mike Levchuck?
A. Similar answer, yeah.
His memory does not get any better. Trump claims people have told him that his properties are worth a lot of money, but he cannot remember who they are beyond the fact they are very rich — or if he does remember them, he will not identify them because he does not want to embarrass them. Nor can he produce anything in writing.
Then followed a long discussion about debt, Doral, and rehabilitating country clubs. Trump does 95% of the talking, with his lawyers attempting to pile on. I have no idea if this helped Trump or the prosecution as much of what he said was in this form:
“Hey, I caught Biden making a mistake when he said — when he said, he’s going to close up gas at the end of the debate. I said, that was Perry Mason. Unfortunately, the election was rigged.”
Next, Trump claimed he was such a good credit risk that banks forced him to take money.
“We went to the closing and the bank said, I’m not going — we’re not going to close. We want you to take an extra hundred million dollars.”
And, “But the banks said, no, we want you. We feel you need more for this. We feel you could easily handle it. We’re not going to close unless you take more money.”
He also claimed that Allen Weisselberg, his CFO, was the guy who made all the appraisals because appraisers could be wrong — and besides, they were expensive.
“Not much. I mean, they [Weisselberg and his comptroller, Jeffrey McConney] would do it, I think, standard ways. Nobody — nobody could ever be expected to go out and hire appraisal firms. It would be too expensive.”
This gets us to page 117 out of 479. Which I think gives us enough to get a flavor of the event. Reading the deposition is to see a man whose mind cannot construct a coherent thought and will not go three questions without ludicrous self-aggrandizement. Worse for him, he steamrolls his own lawyers, who are trying to run interference. And if he ever tells the truth, it is by mistake.
He claims he has created the world’s greatest brand while denying he has anything to do with running the company. And, if the NY AG needs a sacrificial lamb, she should take Eric.